Racial Profiling

As I read more and more about race, ethnicity and immigration, I see that there are quite a few issues that I have rarely thought about.  One issue, racial profiling, I have thought about.  One blog that I occasionally read is independentchristianpatriot.  It is run by an ex-gay named Robert Bayn.  Like Stacy Harp, I rarely agree with him.  But I read him anyway.  Lately I have read a couple of things that have bothered me, mostly because they seem to border on racism.  Usually when someone says something like, this isn’t racist, but… then the alarm bells go off.  I try to refrain from leaving comments because it is usually pointless and I get called a ‘far left’ or ‘homosexual activist’ or other such meaningless descriptions.  But today I decided to leave a comment because Robert really doesn’t know what he is talking about.

He is upset because people are complaining about a sheriff in Arizona who has a hotline to his office for people to report who they think might be illegal immigrants.  You can read the article here.  People can call this hotline and say whatever they think, without proof.  The danger is that people who are here legally and are citizens could be turned in to this hotline and since it is a hotline to turn in what people believe are illegal immigrants (hence people who look like they are from Mexico and other southern countries), there is a chance of racial profiling.  And some Latino groups have decided to set up their own hotline to take tips on those who call in to report these supposed illegal immigrants! 

Anyway, I don’t think that Robert understood what racial profiling was.  He states:

…in the other case the old liberal claim of racial profiling comes into play. At some point we have to reach a place, where we say that if you break the law to enter this country, you have to leave, and come back through the right channels, and we must also come to terms with, that if you report Illegal Immigrants you are not being racist, you are doing your job as a citizen, and reporting people who are breaking the law. In the latter case, this is not about Racial Profiling, it’s a matter of being proactive against Illegal Immigration, making someone prove they are here legally is not wrong, in a day of Terrorism, having undocumented people in your country, almost seems insane to most level headed thinking Americans.

As a nation we must take back this great nation, and require law enforcement and those in Washington to put into action the laws we already have on the books, a failure to do so, is a failure to provide Justice for legal Citizens, and those who are waiting to enter this great Nation. We must call a end to Activist Judges, whether they be on the right or left, the law must be enforced and personal prejudices must be put aside.

The problem with this hotline is not that genuine illegal immigrants might be turned in, but that legal citizens of the U.S. who just happen to be Latino or black or Asian might be turned in.  THAT is racial profiling.  If someone commits a crime, then that is another story.  But that is not what the hotline is all about. 

I left this comment:

Robert, do you know what racial profiling is? I have to question that based on your comments. You call for putting personal prejudices aside, but that is what racial profiling is all about.
Let me give you an example. The good people of this town in Arizona see someone who looks Latino walking down the street. Bam–they call the hotline and turn him in. They see a caucasian walking down the street and people wave and say hi. The difference? The Latino is an American citizen, which will only come out when he goes off to jail because of this hotline. The caucasian is an illegal immigrant from, say, Ireland. Racial profiling does this to people. This happened (and sadly still happens) to black people today.
This has nothing to do with ‘activist judges’ or the ‘left.’ No one wants to be picked up by the police just because of the way they look. You have to understand that, don’t you?

July 27, 2007 10:54 AM

He left this very mature comment:

Thanks Kevin, I had no idea what Racial Profiling was, wow you are so smart, and great your [sic], so awesome you know all of these great things, it must be really tough on you, to be so smart and yet so absurd at the same time.
Lets say someone stole a car, and someone notices that the person who committed the crime, look like the person they just saw, and report [sic] it, now lets [sic] say that person happens to be Latino, the leftist go out and claim racial profiling, I claim Justice. Asking for someone to provide papers that they are here legally is not racial profiling, It’s enforcing the law, against people who come here illegally, in fact those who are here legally, should be more than happy to prove they are here legally, to help stop the scum bags that come here illegally. Racial Profiling was made up by far leftist to prevent law enforcement from doing their jobs, just because a few nut cops in the south beat up some African Americans in the 50’s-60’s, get over it, we need to stop the influx of illegal immigrants, and unlike the San Francisco Mayor,who said, he welcomes Illegals, we in Real America, want laws enforced!

At least he recognizes that I am smart!  I like that part of it…  🙂

Anyway, the problem is clear from his response.  He is talking about someone who was seen committing a crime and the police were called.  I have no problem with that and that is not racial profiling.  Robert says ‘leftist’ so much in his blog that I am afraid it has lost any real meaning it might have had.

So racial profiling was made up so that police couldn’t do their jobs?  If that isn’t ignorant, racist speech, I don’t know what is.  I hope he can tell that to all of those poor black and latino people how have been pulled over and are still being pulled over because the police think that blacks and Latinos commit crimes.  Get over the crimes that police did to thousands of blacks in the south in the 1960’s?  How does one get over that except to make sure that it doesn’t happen again and to make sure that police don’t target innocent people just because of the color of their skin. 

Real America?  Robert lives in Michigan.  Sure, that is real America, just as much as it is in San Francisco and in San Diego and anywhere else on American soil.  What he means by ‘real America’ is the select few that actually agree with him.  That is his ‘real America.’  Well, he can have that section if he wants!

I left this in response:

Robert, from your oh-so witty response, it is clear you really don’t know what racial profiling is. What you describe isn’t racial profiling at all.

Here, let me be very clear about this–racial profiling happens when a person of a different race or ethnicity is pulled over by a policeman just because he/she is black, or Latino. If they commit a crime (as you describe) and are caught, that is NOT racial profiling.

By the way, where does the San Francisco mayor say that he welcomes illegal immigrants? I wouldn’t mind reading that…

And I did a bit of homework for Robert on what racial profiling is, since he clearly doesn’t want to believe this far left, militant homosexual who doesn’t live in real America:


Racial Profiling
Racial profiling has been defined in a myriad of ways. Following are some samples of those definitions:

"Racially-biased policing occurs when law enforcement inappropriately considers race or ethnicity in deciding with whom and how to intervene in an enforcement capacity." Lorie Fridell, Robert Lunney, Drew Diamond and Bruce Kubu, Racially Biased Policing: A Principled Response 5 (Washington, D.C.: Police Executive Research Forum, 2001).


"Using race as a key factor in deciding whether to make a traffic stop." General Accounting Office, Racial Profiling: Limited Data Available on Motorist Stops. GAO/GGD-00-41. Washington, DC: March 2000.


"Any police-initiated action that relies on the race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than the behavior of an individual or information that leads the police to a particular individual who has been identified as begin, or having been, engaged in criminal activity." Deborah Ramirez, Jack McDevitt, and Amy Farrell, A Resource Guide on Racial Profiling Data Collection Systems: Promising Practices and Lessons Learned (Washington, D.C.: Department of Justice, November 2000).


"The practice of a law enforcement agent relying, to any degree, on race, ethnicity, or national origin in selecting which individuals to subject to routine investigatory activities, or in deciding upon the scope and substance of law enforcement activity following the initial routine investigatory activity, except that racial profiling does not include reliance on such criteria in combination with other identifying factors when the law enforcement agent is seeking to apprehend a specific suspect whose race, ethnicity, or national origin is part of the description of the suspect." End Racial Profiling Act, S.989, 107th Congress, Section 501 (2001).


"The practice of detaining a suspect based on a broad set of criteria which casts suspicion on an entire class of people without any individualized suspicion of the particular person being stopped." Massachusetts SB 228, "An Act Providing For the Collection Of Data Relative To Traffic Stops," Chapter 228 of the Acts of 2000.


"In the literature to date, there appear to be at least two clearly distinguishable definitions of the term ‘racial profiling’: a narrow definition and a broad definition. . . . Under the narrow definition, racial profiling occurs when a police officer stops, questions, arrests, and/or searches someone solely on the basis of the person’s race or ethnicity. . . . Under the broader definition, racial profiling occurs whenever police routinely use race as a factor that, along with an accumulation of other factors, causes an officer to react with suspicion and take action." Jim Cleary, "Racial Profiling Studies in Law Enforcement: Issues and Methodology," MN House of Rep. Research Info. Br., at 5-6 (June 2000).

I’m sure Robert will have more to say about this, or he will just block my comments. 


Robert Bayn said…

That’s about the Mayor.
Second you seem to be the one who does not know what Racial Profiling is, if someone is suspected of being here illegally, it’s common sense to ask them to provide their legal papers, take your head out of your ass, and get a clue.

July 27, 2007 5:23 PM

Kevin said…

"Take your head out of your ass, and get a clue"? How on earth will I be able to read the link you gave me?
Besides, if you bothered to read the link to the S.F. Chronicle, you will see that what the mayor had to say was related directly to racial profiling, which he is against.
Here is what racial profiling is all about:
"We are victims," said Quintano, adding that his wife and two daughters, then ages 4 and 10, live in fear of another raid, even though they are in the country legally. "They were looking for somebody unrelated to us, but they lined us up against the wall and held us for an hour. It was terrifying, especially for our daughters."
That sounds pretty pleasant, doesn’t it? So what crime did they commit?

July 27, 2007 5:46 PM

Robert Bayn said…

They were let go, weren’t they? Once they were proven to be hear [sic] legally.
Honestly you leftist, seem [sic] to forget about 9-11, having people in this country illegally is just insane.
Now go somewhere else and pedal [sic] your San Francisco values!

July 27, 2007 5:53 PM

Notice Robert did not answer what crime they committed.  So I won’t bother leaving more comments on this particular topic.  Robert seems to think it is fine for the police to target people based on race.  Lining up innocent people, including children, just because they look different is just plain old disgusting, and illegal, I might add.  And Robert thinks that all will be well when, after being lined up and held, they pull out their ‘paperwork.’  I really can’t wait when Robert, a white male, gets pulled over one day just because he is driving in an Hispanic neighborhood just because he is white.  We’ll see how he feels when he is lined up against the wall and held just because he is white.  I have a feeling that Mr. Bayn will be singing a slightly different tune then…And then he will really understand what racial profiling is all about. 

And really, calling me a leftist and talking about my San Francisco values?  🙂  Poor Robert doesn’t have a clue what these terms mean.  Maybe he can look these up when he starts to look up what racial profiling means.  It will give him something to do in between his racist rants and raves.




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