This morning I downloaded the latest installment of the IndependentChristianPatriot webradio show, hosted by Robert Bayn and his guest host Mark from Chesterstreet. Their guest was Charlene Cothran, the infamous lesbian who ran the Venus magazine for years and then found Jesus and is now an ex-lesbian. I thought I would be interesting to listen to. And that was the case. Charlene believes that the Satan is responsible for her being a lesbian. She stated :
"The deception of the enemy experiment turned into a life-long destruction." She entered her lesbian lifestyle at 19 and didn’t leave it until she was 49. She states that she was in a pride parade in 2003 and she describes herself as turning her back to the thousands of men-with-men and women-with-women because "this is wrong." She calls this moment ‘earthshaking’ and an ‘epiphany.’ She refers to her time in the lesbian lifestyle as a trick of the devil and part of that trick was that the devil tricked her into not looking at the bible.
I find it very interesting that Cothran, in 2003, was having trouble with what her role was in helping these gays and lesbians, and yet she didn’t stop until three years later, in 2006. So in this time she continued to live the lie, collect a check, collect money from advertisers for her magazine and write and speak to gays and lesbians everywhere. Like Michael Glatze, I think she should return that money and apologize for taking it in the first place, since she thought that it was ‘wrong.’ Wrong was taking money from these people and sneering at them when they turned their back. But I have a feeling this isn’t the whole truth. If I have any free time in the next month or so, I am going to look back into the older volumes of Venus to see exactly what Charlene was up to in the 2004-2006 timeperiod. It is amazing how people can re-write history when it suits them and it will be interesting to see what she writes and what she was doing, all the while thinking that gays and lesbians were ‘wrong.’
She believes she has a two-fold mission in her life. 1) "to pull down the lie the we were born this way.’ ‘…male and female fit together.’ She talks about how God made man and woman (I notice specifically that she did not say God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve–so maybe she is remembering a bit of her own history). She said that God did not then make two men and then two women. What Charlene doesn’t tell you is that God only created Adam and Eve, who then had Cain and Abel, but we don’t hear that God created other people. All of a sudden, the cursed Cain went off to the Land of Nod and ‘knew’ his wife. Where did she come? Is it possible that God created more people than just what we hear about? Maybe Adam and Eve weren’t the first? Maybe the wife of Cain was the daughter of Adam and Eve? Or maybe the story is just a creation story to explain the presence of people in this world? Anyway, I am getting off the subject…
I’m not quite sure what her second goal was. Mark begins to talk about how the gay community ‘redefined words, redefined feelings. They are redefining it in public schools that we are sending our kids to, that a truth that you are born that way…We’ve got the gay/lesbian/ blah, blah, blah Soulforce thing came through my town not too long ago…that if you feel something, it makes it right." He continues "…are absolutely wrong when you don’t have a source for right and wrong other than your sin-filled, death-stenched heart." Mark calls these lies that were taught to Charlene (which I find doubtful–she is 49 and I would bet that nothing was mentioned to her about gay people in her school) and others ‘bullshit.’ Then the conversation takes quite a turn:
Charlene: "Oh Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, I have a problem right now, a problem with your language. I’m trying to figure out, wait a minute there, the Holy Ghost is abiding (?–a bit of it is garbled here) where is he (that is, Mark) coming with all of this language?"
Mark: "But, But, what language did I use?"
Robert: "You used B.S."
Mark: "Bullshit. That’s something that comes out of a bull’s butt, and it is about as…
Charlene: "You know what, you know what…"
Robert: "You can’t use that language…"
Charlene: "O.k., I’m going to have to go. It has been nice talking to you guys. I really appreciate it. And I’m to talk to you later on. Bye Bye.
Robert: "Take care"
Charlene: (there was no response from Charlene–she had already hung up).
Now that was a bit surprising. I think both Robert and Mark were surprised to that she had ended the conversation like that (and me too!). Mark wasn’t very happy about that "If bullshit shuts you up, then you have a problem." He does apologize later in the show. Today Mark addresses this on his blog. I have to partially agree with him. Mark was on her side and yet she decided to end the conversation (which was really just her telling her story again and no conversation with anyone else) when he said bullshit. She acted as if the Holy Spirit told her that if she heard swear words, then she needed to escape as soon as possible. Anyway, it was a bit bizarre. But I guess if you are continually blaming Satan for all of your problems, you can understand how hearing a swear word might kick in the whole ‘Satan is trying to catch me’ complex.
Metropolitan Community Church and the Gay Christian Movement Watch
Now enough about Charlene Cothran. I just wanted to mention a couple of other things I heard. It is clear that Robert had read that bit at the Gay Christian Movement Watch about the Metropolitan Community Church. But I’m not sure if he read it very well, since 1) he couldn’t remember the actual name of this church and 2) he now thinks that the MCC doesn’t have a need for Christ. He really should have read my blog where I point out what the MCC church actually believes instead of believing what DL Foster believes what MCC is all about.
The issue of Sin
Mark and Robert then talk about sin. Both of them are convinced that there is no sin that God will not forgive:
Mark: "No. There is absolutely no sin, including child molestation, that is not forgivable."
Mark: "Nothing, absolutely nothing that one can do…"
Robert: "You are absolutely right. It doesn’t matter what you have done."
Mark: "There is no sin that is not forgivable."
Well, there actually is one sin that is unforgivable–and it will never be forgiven:
Matt. 12:31 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
I don’t say this to be argumentative, but they were both absolutely convinced that all sins can be forgiven. I had to deal with Matt. 12:31-32 in my dissertation because Mani believed that he was the Holy Spirit, and Augustine used this verse against him.
Robert also has a few things to say about his truth and the truth of others:
"You know what, I don’t really need to hear what you have to say about this, that and the other, because I already know what the truth is. Your truth is a lie. My truth comes from the all-mighty."
He later continues:
"I don’t care what activists tell you, there is a tug on every single person’s heart that is involved in this sort of lifestyle, and that tug is coming from Christ. Christ’s calling you out of that…Don’t get caught up in the ‘born this’ gay theology or ‘I gotta be this cause I can’t be that.’
I often find it interesting when one person can make such bold claims and really believe them to be the truth, when clearly they are not. Has my heart been tugged by Christ? Nope. Plain and simple. It is easy for someone like Charlene Cothran or Robert to believe this because this is the only thing that they can believe. It sustains their belief that they have changed. Fine. But they really shouldn’t project their beliefs on everyone else or make it sound like they actually know what is happening to other people whom they have never met.