A black, Christian divorced woman said this to me:
“You have missed my point completely Kevin. You don’t have to fight for rights that you already have. But if you should be discriminated because of your homosexuality, I don’t see a problem with that. Why so? Because homosexuality is considered morally offensive to many. Unlike race which involves the color of one’s skin and is morally neutral, the behavior of the gay person isn’t.”
Interesting. She clearly has been hiding under a Rock (that is a pun—she goes to the Rock Church) and has no clue that any rights that the glbt community have in this country have been fought for. She fights against the glbt community and is part of the persecutors who have tried their hardest to get rights taken away. She believes that skin color is morally neutral, therefore discriminating against someone with black skin is wrong. O.k., but there are lots of other things that have been thought to be immoral and now aren’t. The first is skin color. It wasn’t so long ago that many, many people thought black people immoral just because of their skin color, and this was the main reason why whites felt they were biblically entitled to own black people. It wasn’t so long ago that it was immoral for a woman to vote or even have the custody of her children if she got a divorce. Speaking of divorce, it certainly was immoral not too long ago to get a divorce. Clearly this black woman would be fine discriminating against black people, against women and against divorced people, which funny enough is her own description. I suppose you could discriminate against yourself, but I imagine it isn’t pretty. She also conveniently forgets that religion is a behavior—she chooses to be a Christian. If she actually thought about that one, she would probably support discriminating against Christians, not to mention all other religions that she isn’t a part of. If we take this to the end, she really wants everyone discriminated against except of course herself. Thank god we don’t allow a theocracy in this country.
And it is hard to believe that anyone could voice their opinion openly that discrimination against any group of people was acceptable.
Kevin's Space 
"Speaking of divorce, it certainly was immoral not too long ago to get a divorce." This woman should know that it is still morally offensive all she needs to do is pull the blinders off and read her bible. It is according to the book she reads it is still morally offensive for a person to marry outside their race or religion. But, isnt it convienent that they over look all these things so they dont have to feel guilty. They are so steeped in their own guilt that they have to have some scape goats. Kevin, this is the problem with trying to deal with people who are so steeped religious superstition. You will never get through to them because they cant even see the forest for all the damn trees in the way. You cannot even carry on a intelligent conversation with some one so steeped in Church dogma because they are the blind following the blind.
So it\’s OK to discriminate against someone if you think it is morally OK to do so? I\’m sure the KKK thought they had morals, not to mention the Nazi\’s, or hell even the Catholic Church when in years past it has killed people who were different, or went against the Norm. Sorry but hate, and discrimination or any kind is never morally OK, she needs to figure out what Jesus she supposedly is following!
Hi Guys (and Cass too since I\’m sure she will echo what both of you said!).Yes, it is time to hang it up with this person. If she thinks it is o.k. to discriminate against anyone she feels is immoral, then it is too late for her. I might as well give her a pitchfork and tell her to start poking (except that she would start doing that!).
ECHO…echo…echo…echo….
Hi Cass! I knew I would see your message today. 🙂 I was thinking about you in the car drive home from work!
hi…but see my follow up blog about God and the Bible.
Kevin, why on earth you don\’t mention my name and blog is beyond me. If you had done so if would have given others the opportunity to see how much you have distorted what I\’ve said. Oh, I just answered my own question!True, I do discriminate but you don\’t explain HOW I discriminate. EVERYONE discriminates in some form or fashion. My discussion with you about allowing polygamists and pedophiles to marry showed me how much you discriminate also.I discriminate by not agreeing. I discriminated against gay marriage by voting yes on Prop 8. Other than that, I don\’t treat gays any differently than I treat anyone else.Yes, I am a divorcee, but as I explained on my blog, I still believe that divorce is immoral but not ALL divorce is wrong. Christ excused divorce when adultery was involved. That was the case in my marriage so I divorced after it was apparent that my husband wasn\’t going to admit to his wrong doing and ask forgiveness, which I would have forgiven him for (once but not twice).Yes, being a Christian is a behavior but not an immoral behavior.So the bottom line again, EVERYONE discriminates it\’s just what and how we\’re discriminating is the question.
About persecution which the LGBT community certainly has their share of, it is quite different to be persecuted for immoral reasons than for NO reason. Blacks were persecuted simply for having a different shade of color. POINTLESS! There isn\’t a biblical commandment anywhere that told people to treat people of African ancestry like animals or worse, no matter how one tried to justify it. But regarding homosexuality, there are clear commandments in both Old and New Testaments of the bible, and in almost every major religion in the world except Buddhism I do believe, homosexuality is frowned upon.I made the point also that people can practice homosexuality without anyone even knowing that they are gay and thereby escaping persecution. Not so with blacks who can\’t change their color. Hateful discrimination is always present because we can\’t "hide" or be discreetly "black." So yes, I stand by my statement that blacks have and will continue to be persecuted more than the LGBT community. Our history is proof.
Carlotta–I didn\’t distort what you said–you can clearly see that I copied your own words. To discriminate against any community is wrong. You said that you don\’t have a problem with discriminating against the glbt community. Do you even know what kind of discrimination the glbt community has gone through? Killings, beatings, denied housing, denied basic rights–all because of who they are. It is POINTLESS. Your history is one-eyed. The discrimination against the black community, although it still happens, is NO LONGER LEGAL. Someone can be prosecuted for committing a crime like that. But not so for the discrimination against the glbt community in most parts of this country. The discrimination against the glbt community is legal in many parts of this country and the world. Current history is proof–if one is willing to open the other eye. And as I said to your buddy DL Foster–pedophilia harms children–that is why it is so, so wrong. Being gay harms no one. That is why it is comparing apples and oranges. Besides, the point of all of this is that you have a right to your religious belief. But we should all be equal–every single one of us. The law needs to protect everyone–even if one group has a religious belief that differs from others.
Christocentric you said: "So yes, I stand by my statement that blacks have and will continue to be persecuted more than the LGBT community. Our history is proof."I\’m sorry but the ladys remark begs a comment. That is not only the dumbest but, the most assinine statement I have read in a long time. Discrimination is discrimination and no matter how you cut it, it is wrong. Religious discrimination is the worst of the worst because history proves that more people have been enslaved, persecuted and murdered all in the name of an all loving G-d. The first thing I want to make clear to Christocentric is that, You do not have any special lock on claiming discrimination and persecution just because of the color of your skin. I personaly know first hand what discrimination is. I have been denied employment and housing simply based on my ancestry. I also know what it is to be discriminated against because of a artificial quotas that a company had to meet. I know what its like to be denied being able to go to the same schools that whites and blacks could go to together because of my mothers ancestry made me inferior to both races. My ancestors know what slavery is after all they were subject to it for over 300 years. To use your own words "Mexicans have and will be more discriminated against than Blacks or Whites. Our history is proof. Now does this give me the right to discriminate against others simply because of my past persecution and discrimination. "Hell no it does not" it should teach me that if anything I need to be more understanding of the perscuction and discrimination being practiced against any group for what ever reason. You say "Christ excused divorce when adultery was involved." Well madam as a former priest I am here to tell you that Jesus did not say that adultery was a justified reason for divorce. I would suggest you go back to your bible and read exactly what he said and to pay close attention to the two distinctly different words he used in his statement. In Matthew 5 Jesus said: 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of "fornication", causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.Now Jesus said save for "fornication" to Jesus the word The word “fornication” was used in a symbolic sense, meaning a forsaking of God or a following after idols. You will also note that he said the man who divorced his wife for any other cause than this caused her to commit adultery and any one who married her was commiting adultry. Two distinct words with two very definet meanings. I would also like to remind you that when you start using the bible to condemn others saying what they are doing is biblicaly immoral then you need to heed that there are 613 laws laid down clearly and that you, I am sure do not keep 611 of them. The bible also tells says if you judge others by just one law then you stand judged by the total law.Sorry Kev but, when I see statements like this justifying discrimination against the LGBT community I cannot stand by and let them get away falsely citing scripture to justify their discrimination.
Justin, you\’re right about Mexicans being discriminated more than blacks, in fact there\’s a new saying among the black community that goes that "Mexicans are the new Black." The Latino population is the largest minority, and with the issues with illegal immigration the persecution and hateful discrimination is rampant against this group of people.I feel ashamed that I even got into this tit for tat discussion on who\’s persecuted more, and there shouldn\’t ever be a comparison. But what I see from the LGBTQ community is the failure to recognize useful discrimination from hateful persecution/discrimination.If we aren\’t discriminating in who can be married, soon we\’ll be seeing blood relatives (incest) wanting to be married, and any other non-traditional group wanting the same privileges. I repeat – we ALL DISCRIMINATE! If you all are too blind and sore to admit, well, so be it.As far as being denied employment, housing and etc., if people have a standard of morality for these things, then they SHOULD be allowed to discriminate! But the topic of immorality is where we all disagree. You Gays are too busy trying to get the rest of us to recognize your lifestyle as "good" instead of "bad." And that\’s what\’s causing the great divide between most of society and the LGBTQ community. No God, no bible and no morality. And that\’s where I\’ll end my 2 cents of opinions.
And Justin regarding divorce, in most modern translations of the bible, either the word adultery or sexual immorality replaced the word fornication which we understand to also mean sexual immorality. Your meaning of the word is just not recognized by most churches. Even the dictionary recognizes the meaning of fornication to mean sexual immorality.I don\’t know everything in the bible, but I do know what it says about divorce and adultery.
Where\’d y\’all find this "Christocentric" person? I have to thank you for the opportunity you have given me to read their comments—I have never laughed so hard in my life! Thank you!
Christocentric: Failure to see useful discrimination from hateful discrimination? Do you not consider demonization, physical assult, and murder hateful discrimination? No I guess you wouldn\’t. I know it is nice to close your eyes and pretend it doesn\’t happen but, it does on a daily basis. I fully know that your modern translations of the bible water down meanings and replace words to try and twist what was written in the original text. I know that in your modern church you do not accept the true meaning of the scripture quoted because if they did then their pews would be emptied in a heart beat. The Church has been twisting and rewriting the bible since the 4th century. They have taken out scripture, added scripture and tried to change the meaning of words to fit the taste of their congregations but you cannot get past the original writings that easily. I will not argue this with you because you are not open to an open and honest debate. You will always hide behind twisted scripture to justify your hate and discrimination of your brothers and sisters and deny them the same rights that we all marched with your people for.
Christocentric: As far as being denied employment, housing and etc., if people have a standard of morality for these things, then they SHOULD be allowed to discriminate! You must have overlooked a key element in my statement about being denied employment, housing and etc. I was not denied those because of a gay issue I was denied those because of race. But, now your telling me if people have a standard of morality for these things, then they SHOULD be allowed to discriminate! So if someone someones moral standards mean they cant rent to or hire you they should be allowed to discriminate! "Amazing absolutely amazing." I see you have bigger issues than you wish to admit.
Oh, Justin! Don\’t tell me YOU take Christocentric\’s comments SERIOUSLY? I mean, come ON, man. No one with half a mind could make such absurd comments and actually BELIEVE them. Obviously, Christocentric is a comedian who enjoys winding people up a la Don Rickles!It\’s a GREAT act and Christocentric should start doing stand-`up! They\’d get rich quick!
Cassie, yes she is serious and she actually believes every word she wrote. I did love her little jab that in the black community the mexicans are the new blacks. If I were her I wouldnt go into the barrio and say that 🙂 No she doent like winding people up she actually thinks she is morally superior to anyone who dares to question her position. I guess I would pay to see her take this stand up act on the road if for no other reason to watch her audience pelt her with rotten fruit and eggs. I dont know why I even try to talk truth to these people. She like all the others are so entrenched in their version of religious superstition that they are unreachable. But, I have made my last comments to her moronic ideas. It is ideas like hers that allowed 10 million people to be sent to the gas chambers or to be worked to death. If you can discriminate against some one because they are gay you can be swayed to discriminate against others whos religion does not match yours and ultimately other races just as long as yours is the one that is not on the list. Again Cassie I take people like this seriously they are so blinded by what they are told that they cannot see the truth.
M\’well, if THAT is the truth, Justin, then you are spending precious time arguing with a fool—surely there are more profitable ways of occupying one\’s time?
Cassie that is what I love about you. You have to slap me and Kev around to keep us on track.
When one considers that Fundamentalists claim to believe in a religion in which the concept of "sin" BEGINS with a naked woman being tempted by a talking phallic symbol how can one take them SERIOUSLY? Their opinions about whether or not my sex life is "good" don\’t interest me and shouldn\’t interest anyone. They are going to think whatever they think and I am, as you know, against any attempts to legislate thought. ANYBODY\’S THOUGHT. When it comes to human rights and violations of same by POLITICAL means THEN they will find me on the other side. But read my latest blog "The Beginning of the End or Voyage to a Beginning" http://tinyurl.com/o4gsme for more on that (I don\’t want to take up too much space here on Kevin\’s blog).
Hi everyone,Well, that is that! \’Useful discrimination\’??? I suppose that translates to: "as long as you don\’t discriminate against me…"This whole idea of who is discriminated against more is rather distateful!\’No God, no bible, no morality\’–that quote is as old as religion itself. And it isn\’t surprising that war runs parallel with religion.Luckily the courts gave civil rights to African Americans–if left up to the majority, who knows where they would be.